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Stamp: Death to Socialism by MobileSuitSonic Stamp: Death to Socialism by MobileSuitSonic
It still makes my stomach churn to think that there's people out there who think Marx's philosophy can work.

I always say this: when you focus on the atrocities that the Nazis committed too much, you tend to forget about Marxism and the mountains of corpses it left in its wake. That's why you see Che Guevara on t-shirts and crap like that!

The Nazis have been covered so much that you're beating a dead horse when you study them. How often have the atrocities of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao been covered? Not as often.

Because of such a blissful ignorance of their atrocities, we have people online who think this system can work... while the people who actually have the balls to study it wouldn't support it with a soup ladel.


EDIT (1/28/2014)
My, my, my... people are SO asshurt over the fact that I DARED to speak out against their sacred cow. Mission accomplished!
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
And yet Norway is a socialism democracy and I guarantee you that Norway is better than M'erica in literally everything.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 18, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Whatever, beastie... *rolls eyes*
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
WideEyedAndWorried Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015
Well it's true.

US - Pure, unregulated Capitalism
-----------------------------------------
. Life expectancy - 79
. Voter turn out - Hasn't reached even 60% of population since 1964
. Unemployment rate - Currently 5.9% of population
. Murder rate - 4.8 per 100,000
. Happiness - Came 16th in UNs 2013 happiness report
. Full universal suffrage - 1965
. Press Freedom Index - Come 46th in ranking
. Literacy rates (CIA Wold Factbook) - 99%
. Cancer survival - 58th ranking (World Health Organisation 2011)
. Obesity rate - More than one-third (34.9%) of populous obese.
. Scientific literacy (The OECD PISA report) - 14th most scientifically literate country
. Percentage of population living below the poverty line (CIA World Factbook) - 14.5%


Norway - Democratic socialism
-----------------------------------
. Life expectancy - 82
. Voter turn out - 77% of population in last elecection
. Unemployment rate - Currently 3.4% of population
. Murder rate - 2.2 people per 100,000
. Happiness - Came 2nd in UNs 2013 happiness report
. Universal vote achieved - 1913
. Press Freedom Index - Comes 3rd in ranking
. Literacy rates (CIA Wold Factbook) - 100%

. Cancer survival - 45th ranking (World Health Organisation 2011)
. Obesity rate - 10% of populous obese.
. Scientific literacy (The OECD PISA report) - 12th most scientifically literate country
. Percentage of population living below the poverty line (CIA World Factbook) - 4.3%

We are more scientifically literate, live longer, have better health care, better schools, lower crime rates, lower obesity rates, lower poverty, higher voter turn outs, higher happiness rates, more press freedom, are healthier (less diabetes, heart disease, eating disorders, lower cancer rates etc), have a lower unemployment rate and we have more gender and racial equality. So yeah, roll your eyes somewhere else.
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
WideEyedAndWorried Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2015
Is it do difficult to summarize arguments that instead you just link to websites and let others do the thinking for you? Your sources aren't studies but probably written by people even more uninformed than you and they are riddled with mistakes. For instance, one states that Sweden is a poor country and yet, our poverty rate is under 5% while yours is almost 15% (keep in mind the poverty line is the same for both countries). Technically, you're the poor country.

Yours souces aren't studies or from academic journals. They are websites written by rednecks and they are covered in mistakes and out right lies. For instance, one of the websites demands that us Swedes can take 570 paid days off a year but who doesn't back it up with facts. This is in fact a complete lie and completely disingenuous (and yet you believe it despite the fact they provide nothing to back it up with. Good going). Are you usually in the habit of believing anything a website that lacks proof of its claims says? I provide studies for my stats, these websites don't provide any references or studies. That's how you know they're bullshit.  

Every country has social problems but ours are pretty minuscule compared to Americas. You have the highest prison population in the ENTIRE WORLD. Your poverty rate is embarrassing. So is your life expectancy. You've funded terrorists (contras, Guardians of the Islamic Revolution, various military juntas and rebel groups etc). Your population has been shown to be pretty scientifically illiterate. In the end, any social problems we encounter are pretty minuscule and there are problems, we aren't a utopia, but our problems compared to yours are tiny. We are just a better country.

Also, bestiality, sort of how it's legal in eleven US states?
And out STD rate is still lower than the USAs, so why bring it up? I don't know where you for that STD article from (it wont open) but it shows where you get your facts from (i.e totally unreliable sources that don't fact check) in fact, our STD rate is pretty low compared to the rest of Europe. www.avert.org/european-hiv-aid…
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
More chauvinism and ad homs. I have absolutely no respect for you guys; keep living in your fantasy.

Here's more, ratboy: www.washingtonpost.com/opinion…
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
WideEyedAndWorried Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2015
"More chauvinism" - Because Americans are never aggressively patrotic. I'm not being chauvinistic. I don't adamantly defend everything my country does. I'm just saying quality of life is better in Sweden than in America, that some economic socialist models work and that ultimately, you saying "death to socialism" is silly, especially seeing as how you compare socialism to Nazism (seriously, you're comparing life in my country to life under fucking fascism) and clearly don't know anything about socialism, never mind the social-economic models of any other country apart from your own.

"Here's more, ratboy" - Nice that you whinge about ad hominem and then use an ad hominem. Firstly, I'm a woman and secondly, thank you. Rats are better than most Americans at any rate.

When did I ever say Scandinavia was a Utopia? It has problems but ones less severe and more fixable than Americas. Like I said, our quality of life is better than yours in almost every way. Less poverty, longer lives, happier, more informed, less unemployment.

Seriously, are you too dumb to summerize and form your own opinions or can you only conduct arguments by linking to other things written by rednecks that are not backed up by facts/references?
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Edited Jan 29, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
You really like to use the word "redneck", don't you? 

A friend of mine's been following this convo; he says you don't know what socialism is and you are mistaking it social legislation.

Also, at what point did I ever shove my flag in your face? 
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(2 Replies)
:iconwarsie:
Warsie Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
>butthurt capitalists mad that their shitty economic system causes lots of suffering

Yeah, bitch about the USSR and Marxism but the atrocities of capitalism at its' raw form in the Belgian Congo is perfectly ok. :v
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
>butthurt socialists mad because their philosophy can be criticized just like Nazism.

Also, big government incursions via Leopold. Not laissez-faire markets.
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
WideEyedAndWorried Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015
Wow, did you really just equate socialism to Nazism? Just wow.

Nobody's bitching that you can criticise socialism, all forms of social and economic systems can be criticised (including may I add, capitalism), people are just pointing out that, like a lot of ignorant Americans, you clearly don't even know what socialism is and equate all types of socialism to the USSR and Marxism. Look at Scandinavian democratic socialism, I don't see Sweden leaving "mountains of corpses it left in its wake" and as I've already pointed out, it can be strongly debated that democratic socialism is more effective and stable than capitalism. (Also, I don't think America has any foot to stand on in accusing others of committing atrocities, *cough* genocide of the Native Americans *cough* Vietnam War *cough* funding the contras and giving weapons to the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution *cough*)
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:iconwarsie:
Warsie Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
socialism =/= statism lol
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Oct 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Okay, you're clearly nuts. It's total government, all the same.
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:iconwideeyedandworried:
WideEyedAndWorried Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015
You think socialism and statism are the same?

Buddy, do you ever wonder why the rest of the world thinks you Americans are incredibly ignorant and don't know anything about the topics you adamantly try to discuss.

Last time I looked, Sweden's economic system didn't involve statism. Neither does Norwas or Denmarks and yet oh look, they have adopted democratically socialist economic models.
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:iconwarsie:
Warsie Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh, so I'm nuts for pointing out you can be socialist without a government? lol, look up anarcho-syndicalism and anarcho-communism brah.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Oct 7, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Anarcho-communism is an oxymoron. It claims to be against force and government control, despite the two being necessary to limit capitalism.
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:iconwarsie:
Warsie Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
capitalism needs government control and force to exist though.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Oh brother, what did I just say? Those concepts are independent of one another!
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(1 Reply)
:iconrenerdecastro:
RenerDeCastro Featured By Owner Jun 18, 2014  Student General Artist
A lot of my fellow majors are sadly tempted into it...So far I've seen that they're pretty much irredeemable from it...Also the fact that they're very much hypocrites...
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:iconmaster-of-the-boot:
Master-of-the-Boot Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
Say goodbye to your public roads, public utilities, libraries and things like that. 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
You mean the stuff that is paid for by taxpayers?
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:iconmaster-of-the-boot:
Master-of-the-Boot Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
Yes, the stuff the pays for all the benefits of civilization. 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
And yet you seem to think that it comes out the government's pocket...
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:iconhooded-wanderer:
hooded-wanderer Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014  Student General Artist
Me thinks your mixing up Socialism and Communism sonny. 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
But if I say "Death to Communism" you guys will claim "Oh, but communism has never really been realized"!
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:iconhooded-wanderer:
hooded-wanderer Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2014  Student General Artist
And what makes you think I would actually claim that? Unless you can read the future you should stop putting words in people's mouths. 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I've been around your kind long enough to see those claims.
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:iconhooded-wanderer:
hooded-wanderer Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2014  Student General Artist
My kind? You speak as if I'm part of some sort of hive mind mentality.
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:iconmylittletripod:
MyLittleTripod Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Here's the huge assumption here, that the Communism that Lenin and Stalin supported is the exact same communism that Marx came up with. He instead came up with the idea of a stateless, Moneyless, Classless Society as opposed to Lenin, Stalin and Mao's idea of a Dictatorship where all wealth is nationalized. So although Marxism is a fairly flawed system, it shouldn't be demonized just because of so called "Communists" like Stalin. And seriously, death to Socialism? So you're grouping Libertarian Socialists with Stalin an Lenin?
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Every time someone has tried to work toward Marx's utopia, it resulted in despotism.
Riddle me this: "How does the dictatorship of the proletariat dissolve itself?" Marx couldn't figure it out.

So although Marxism is a fairly flawed system, it shouldn't be demonized just because of so called "Communists" like Stalin.

By that logic, fascism shouldn't be demonized because of so-called "Nazis" like Hitler.

"And seriously, death to Socialism? So you're grouping Libertarian Socialists with Stalin an Lenin?"

Libertarian Socialism is an oxymoron.
Socialism is about the collective.
Libertarianism is about the individual.


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:iconmylittletripod:
MyLittleTripod Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Riddle me this: "How does the dictatorship of the proletariat dissolve itself?" Marx couldn't figure it out.

Unless of course the country was taken over and run by a group of anonymous worker's collective. isn't that what Socialism entails?

By that logic, fascism shouldn't be demonized because of so-called "Nazis" like Hitler."

But the difference was that Fascism was a oppressive system in response to the growing "threat" of Communism designed for Dictators by Dictators, eg. Benito Mussolini.

Libertarian Socialism is an oxymoron.
Socialism is about the collective.
Libertarianism is about the individual.

So you're saying that Libertarian Socialism is about Individual Collective? I honestly don't know. 

Also, do you outright hate this system? Because I've looked it up on Wikipedia and it honestly doesn't seem as bad or evil as Stalinism or Leninism. For example, "Libertarian socialists believe in converting present-day private productive property into common or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property." and  they Libertarian socialists generally place their hopes in decentralized means of direct democracy such as libertarian municipalism, citizens' assemblies, trade unions, and workers' councils. Definitely different from the idea of a Dictatorship.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Unless of course the country was taken over and run by a group of anonymous worker's collective. isn't that what Socialism entails?

And yet none have come to fruition. Every time a socialist government was set up, a dictator was at the helm.

But the difference was that Fascism was a oppressive system in response to the growing "threat" of Communism designed for Dictators by Dictators, eg. Benito Mussolini.

And Marxism is an outmoded political theory created in response to laissez-faire capitalism, neglecting the fact that humans are selfish by nature. The goals are unreasonable, eventually resulting in an oligarchy (i.e. the Party) lording over the citizenry.

Because I've looked it up on Wikipedia and it honestly doesn't seem as bad or evil as Stalinism or Leninism.

Ah, Wikipedia... what college professors tell you never to use.

"Libertarian socialists believe in converting present-day private productive property into common or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property."

"The libertarian socialists who claim to advocate for free markets mean markets in the products of labor. Some of them also mean free markets in the means of production. But none of them advocate free markets in land property titles, since such titles are considered illegitimate under socialism." (emphasis added)

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:iconmylittletripod:
MyLittleTripod Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Every time a socialist government was set up, a dictator was at the helm.

But in the case of Libertarian Socialism, Rulership is designed in a way that doesn't pave the way for a Dictatorship. The is some form of Authority at the helm of the Libertarian State, but it's chosen by the people and the relationship between the people and the authority is autonomous, meaning that they can chose to terminate it at any time, as the autonomous relationship between a student and her tutor is like.

And Marxism is an outmoded political theory created in response to laissez-faire capitalism.

Which is why I prefer Libertarian Socialism.

Ah, Wikipedia... what college professors tell you never to use.

Because they don't want you to find something to refute them.

But none of them advocate free markets in land property titles, since such titles are considered illegitimate under socialism. 

What do you mean by Free Market? Free Market Capitalism? Then no Libertarian Socialist has ever advocated this. Libertarian socialists who advocate for free markets aren't actual Libertarians, it's just what America has misconceived the word as.

But you have to take my word for it, Heres something that refutes the arguments against Socialism: Arguments against Anarchism
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 29, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Blah, blah, Libertarian Socialism is so good! Yadda yadda yadda, makes everything gumdrops and lollipops! Dribble, dribble, dribble!

It never existed and never the twain shall meet:

Because they don't want you to find something to refute them.

Uh, no. Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Since you use this as the ultimate source of information, rather than doing REAL research... I'll let you come back in when you've finished college. Bye-bye.
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:iconmylittletripod:
MyLittleTripod Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Well Libertarian Socialism as I heard is basically just another name for Anarchism. I don't entirely support Libertarian Socialism, I just don't think it's as bad or backwards as you say it is. I personally have my own set of beliefs that I may write down somewhere.

But at least Libertarian Socialism would be better than the system we have today, where the one that pays the Politicians the most dictates their policies (ie. Corporations), and can't be sustained for long since a major characteristic of Capitalism is plundering the Earth's natural resources beyond replacement for Profit's sake.

Anyone can edit Wikipedia. Since you use this as the ultimate source of information, rather than doing REAL research.

You make it sound like Fox News and 13 year olds were running the site.
And besides, where else do you suggest I should look for research? Encyclopedia Dramatica? Whysocialismisthedevilandcapitalismisthebestthingsincecockadoodledo.com? 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 30, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well Libertarian Socialism as I heard is basically just another name for Anarchism.

Ah, anarchism. It worked so well in France after Louis XVI got his head chopped off!
History says that the French Revolution "fed on itself".

You make it sound like Fox News and 13 year olds were running the site. And besides, where else do you suggest I should look for research?

Maybe you could take some Microec and Macroec courses... but then you'd probably recoil in hear.
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(1 Reply)
:iconhooded-wanderer:
hooded-wanderer Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014  Student General Artist
It's more likely that this guy thinks anything that is considered leftist, like "Liberalism, Socialism, Progressivism, Communism, etc" will bring doom and destruction. While anything that is considered rightist, like "Conservatism, Fascism, Reactionaries, Fundamentalism, etc" will bring prosperity and make the land a better place :shrug: 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 28, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I dislike fundamentalism and fascism... but Marxism and socialism doesn't have a clean nose either.

Also, in my eyes, Marxism IS reactionary.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Also, Jmoc, the US economy was never part of the discussion.

See you once you're done with college.
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:iconrtjdudek:
RTJDudek Featured By Owner Jan 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I doubt he'll ever learn that - fools like Jmoc prove, that communism isn't just silly utopia without rational base - more like debilitating mental disorder close to schizophrenia.

Which means as much as that all the commies, Nazis, anarchists and similar socialists are madmen, who fled from asylum for mentally disabled.
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:iconblamethe1st:
BlameThe1st Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Funny thing. The mass murders commited by communists surpass the body count of the Holocaust. True fact, and one the socialists grossly overlook.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Tell it to :iconjmoc1: here. He's a fanatic!
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:iconjmoc1:
Jmoc1 Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014
No, I'm just a man concerned with the nature of man-kind. Nice use of the Ad Hominem fallacy.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
You're still here, boy?

Here's a way to start: www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quo…
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:iconjmoc1:
Jmoc1 Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014
Is that the best you can do? Use a quote by a man outdated by his own society? Besides, I'm socialist, not communist. Get it right.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
And the people who are communist get PISSED when you call them that, insisting that real-life communism never existed and that they're socialists.

Bye-bye.
Go to bed!
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:iconhooded-wanderer:
hooded-wanderer Featured By Owner Jan 24, 2014  Student General Artist
Care to provide evidence of that? Cause it seems your the one who's getting all pissy. 
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
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(1 Reply)
:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
It's so funny to see people get upset because their model of socio-economics is getting treated like Nazism!
Feels good!
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:iconjmoc1:
Jmoc1 Featured By Owner Jan 4, 2014
Most countries in Europe are social democracies, which is a derivative of socialism. 

Did you know that MLK, Patrick Stewart (Captain Picard), Albert Einstein, and Walter Cronkite were socialists?

Did you also know that most Union Workers during the 19th Century were socialists including the famous Eugene Debs, who rode a presidential ticket from prison?

A lot of interesting things can come from socialism. 
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